VEE vs. Excel VBA

[cpowell]

I just passed P/1 and I've also completed my VEE-Economics Requirement. I plan on either studying Excel VBA on my own until mid-July, or studying for the July NEAS VEE-Corporate Finance test.

I am wondering what potential employers would think of those two options. My only major problem with the VEE option is that I would need to fly out to another city to have the exam proctored. I would do that at my own expense of course.

I have a gap period here because I need to get my condo ready for sale anyway, so I thought doing one of these two options would be a good use of time before I officially start looking for a job in July.

I am interested in any opinions.

[Thomas H]

I'm currently trying to find an entry level job so I'm no expert, but I would say to learn the VBA programming. I've noticed that on a couple of phone interviews I've had they seemed to really be interested in whether or not I knew how to program in VBA.

[WillemEX5]

It's Visual Basic... How hard can it be?

if BLAH BLAH then

do something!?!?!

end if

for i = something to something else

do again and again!!!

next i

[Trojan_Horse]

Really? I'd like to see you blah, blah, blah your way through writing code that automatically connects to an oracle database, and then creates multiple pivot tables and pivot charts. And then create forms in Excel allowing users to manipulate linked databases to generate custom reports on the fly. During my first two years in my position I wrote thousands of lines of code, very few of them as simple as you suggest.

Your comment is very shallow. There's a reason most employers ask about this.

[mrsevansc]

Really? I'd like to see you blah, blah, blah your way through writing code that automatically connects to an oracle database, and then creates multiple pivot tables and pivot charts. And then create forms in Excel allowing users to manipulate linked databases to generate custom reports on the fly. During my first two years in my position I wrote thousands of lines of code, very few of them as simple as you suggest.

Your comment is very shallow. There's a reason most employers ask about this.

I'm not using VBA at my current employer. I have taken a class in college on it. Do you believe some kind of cerification will make one more marketable in the future?

[Trojan_Horse]

If you have time for some kind of certification, I think it would be great. Many people say that they know VBA when they've only done some basic programming. It would be impressive to be able to show some kind of certification. I would, however, never recommend doing this at the expense of studying for or taking your next actuarial exam.

[cpowell]

I'm not sure about certification. I suppose I could look into that at one of the tech schools in the area. That brings up a good point, because I wonder how valid it would look on my resume if all I can say is that I perused an online course or two, or went over a textbook on my own. Maybe focusing on Corporate Finance is the way to go. I only worry that June 15th (the deadline for selecting a proctor) will arrive, and NEAS will tell me that noone out of state is willing to proctor for me. I guess my hope is that some supervisor in Chicago or New York would be willing to add me in while proctoring for his/her own employee.

I plan on starting to study for FM in mid July for the November 2007 sitting. I figure that three and half to four months of studying will work, and I intend on signing up for the Infinite Actuary course.

I learned the hard way last fall that it's really unwise to try to study something else at the same time as studying for an actuarial exam, so I completely agree with that advice. Once I had finished with some college courses in January this year, I realized that I was not ready at all to sit for P, so I delayed until May. I think that was a wise choice, since I had really only focused on P for 6 weeks before the test. That wasn't enough time. I was able to pass P because all I did in my study time was focus on test questions and topic review.

[WillemEX5]

Trojan_Horse... Dude... Chill... It was meant as a joke.

And yes, I've used Java Database Connectivity to connect to IBM DB2 8 and 9 based Databases as part of my training for DB2. While not Oracle, DB2 isn't a pushover also. It's not pleasant, and Database Administrators and Database Application Developers are far better suited for the task than any of us. Compared to the insanity and monster that is J2EE or ODBC/CLI, VBA is a cakewalk.

Also, Microsoft doesn't offer a certification on VBA at all. They offer certifications on Software Development and you learn how to use Visual Basic .net or 2005 to make Web Apps and Database Applications and use ADO to do the job.

This takes a lot of time... And you need a lot of real world examples to pick it up; otherwise, you really can't get the knack for it.

cpowell! Focus on your Actuarial Exams! That is the first and foremost objective. Trust me... There's no way I could've gotten certified in DB2 and passed Exam P at the same time. How do I know? I've taken the DB2 9 Certification Exam. I failed. You really need real world experience with that field. Like I've said, they have Database people far better suited than any of us to handle something like this.

And, if you're writing full blown programs like the Trojster... Uhm... Have you ever considered a career path leading to a Database Administrator position? Pay's pretty good too... And you don't have to take a few thousand exams to get to that high level of pay. But the job's not quite as stable as Actuary.

It would be fun to start a flame war with you Trojan as you've already attacked me on my other post... But I'll take the high road and not privilege you such pleasures... Ho Ho Ho (Try that with a french accent)!

[cpowell]

Thanks WillemEX5. This is good advice -- I'm guessing that I'll be learning this on the job then, and only 6 weeks of personal study won't make much difference. I wasn't really comfortable putting that on my resume anyway unless I could have some sort of certification to show. But it sounds fairly involved, so I'll just leave that until I get an actuarial job.

I'm only giving myself 6 weeks between now and the start of studying for the November 2007 FM test on July 15. And the advantage is I can purchase the textbook for the NEAS course in Corporate Finance, do the homework assignments and practice tests, and then see if they have someone available to be my proctor by June 15. NEAS allows you to keep taking their test again in future sittings, so if I can't do it in July this year, I could do it in August.

[Trojan_Horse]

Sorry about that, I didn't realize you were joking. I've spent the last week working with a bunch of cocky new interns and I'm a bit stressed. Ah, and your other post, I apologize for the same reason. All I've been hearing lately is a bunch of kids tell me how much they know about Excel and VBA and Access and .... (when they really know nothing) and then turn around and whine about how hard the exams are getting. The fact that you bore the brunt of two of my rantings is pure coincidence, nothing personal; unless of course you are one of the interns I'm working with - in that case, I apologize for nothing!

:wacko:

[WillemEX5]

Hey... No Problem... As you can tell, I'm usually never serious. Although I've had a really really tough life, I'm the ultimate Joker and will turn anything into a joke given the chance.

But you gotta understand, they don't teach VBA and the likes in college... In fact, most top rated universities don't have anything about real world programming and applications. They teach the basic theory in usually Java, but that's about it. So, it puts kids coming out of college in a real bind. No real world experience with VBA/Access/Excel or any software systems as a matter of fact...

So, how are you going to bust in? You don't. However, once cpowell and my parents retire, who's going to step in? It's going to be hard considering most of the Baby Boomers (parents of cpowells, college kids, me, and the 1980 mini boomers) have hogged away all the jobs with the good money.

So, how will Generation Y rise up to the occasion? Woops... I've gone completely on a tangent. But I sense a generational war coming! Whose SIDE WILL YOU BE ON:shocked: !?!?! And yes, this is a rhetorical question to everybody.

Anyhow, Exam FM next! Gotta go... Gotta Metra to catch.

Note: Heh heh... Mental flatulence will cause anybody to misspell the simplest of words.

[Junkmonkey]

PS VBA for dummies?

- junk

[cpowell]

Well, I went ahead and purchased the textbooks for VEE-Corporate Finance. I'm going to take the chance of not being able to take the final on July 11, but I have a feeling that once I pay NEAS that they will work with me to find a proctor. :coolman:

I appreciate the reality check about learning VBA. I'd much rather honestly tell the recruiter that I have no experience than trying to inflate the minimal effort I could make in 6 weeks into something worthy of putting on a resume.

Being able to say I'm done with 2 VEE requirements will be worth the money, I think.

And I'll still be able to start studying for FM mid-July like I planned.