My search for the entry level isn't going well...

[Monty Carlow]

... thus far.

I have been out of school for two years now, and have passed the first two exams in that time. I graduated with a B.S. in Math with a 3.17 GPA. My counselors at school were next to useless, and I only discovered the actuarial profession in my senior year.

Since then, I have been dazed trying to figure out everything for myself. Apparently, as it exists right now, the industry wants some experience before they'll give you a shot, but I missed the opportunity for an internship in college, and now I am told that I am too old for one now.

So, I am left in something of a pickle and I don't know what to do. I'd want to talk to the firms directly, but everything is done through clunky websites now. If anyone has any good advice, I'd like to hear it.

[afriend]

I am studying in school and will graduate in April. i have passed 4 exams ( passed 2,3,4 in fall 2004). However, i have no actuarial experience at all. Job hunting is really driving me crazy. I wonder if there is still a chance that i can find a entry level job......all i want is an entry level actuarial job to start....

[wat]

I am studying in school and will graduate in April. i have passed 4 exams ( passed 2,3,4 in fall 2004). However, i have no actuarial experience at all. Job hunting is really driving me crazy. I wonder if there is still a chance that i can find a entry level job......all i want is an entry level actuarial job to start....

I've heard the actuarial job market in Canada is extremely competitive. Best of luck in finding a job. Are you sitting for C6 in May?

[wat]

... thus far.

I have been out of school for two years now, and have passed the first two exams in that time. I graduated with a B.S. in Math with a 3.17 GPA. My counselors at school were next to useless, and I only discovered the actuarial profession in my senior year.

Since then, I have been dazed trying to figure out everything for myself. Apparently, as it exists right now, the industry wants some experience before they'll give you a shot, but I missed the opportunity for an internship in college, and now I am told that I am too old for one now.

So, I am left in something of a pickle and I don't know what to do. I'd want to talk to the firms directly, but everything is done through clunky websites now. If anyone has any good advice, I'd like to hear it.

I might've mentioned this in another thread, but it's worth repeating:

If you do not have any experience and no exams, it will be difficult to find an actuarial position. Start studying for and taking exams as soon as possible. Since you're a math major, you may have taken a course or two in probability/statistics. If so, try and study for the May exam (registration is due on April 1st, though).

After you've got 1 or 2 exams done with, try and look for small insurance companies. The larger companies will be looking for candidates that have had experience and several exams already passed (3-5 exams). Small insurance companies, though, tend to be more accepting of less than maximal job prerequisites. This comes at the cost of less pay.

I got my first position with a small insurance company with (obviously) no experience and no exams passed (I started work the week after Course 1 - Spring 2004). The pay's not in the upper bracket, but it's comfortable.

It's about how much you want it. For now, keep your eye open for any companies/firms looking for candidates and start studying for exams.

[afriend]

hi man, tell you one example, i ever went to an interview in toronto and i didnot get the offer. i called the compnay, they told me that almost all candidates for that position had 4 exams and i was the only one without experience.........i was gonna do c6, but since i have not found a job yet....i guess i will give up...are you gonna write it?

[wat]

hi man, tell you one example, i ever went to an interview in toronto and i didnot get the offer. i called the compnay, they told me that almost all candidates for that position had 4 exams and i was the only one without experience.........i was gonna do c6, but since i have not found a job yet....i guess i will give up...are you gonna write it?

No, no. I still have to go back for M. I say "go back" because I went ahead and got 2 & 4 in the Fall to avoid any headaches with VEE filings and everything (my college has probably never heard of actuarial science). I'm gonna try for the ASA before the conversion is complete, but that requires getting M, 5 and 6 in consecutive attempts.

...in which case, I should be studying now, not posting. Good luck with your job search.

[afriend]

hi good luck on your exams man. M is nothing for you. but C6 really requires alot of material to read...

[wat]

hi good luck on your exams man. M is nothing for you. but C6 really requires alot of material to read...

I'll definitely take your word for it. I've started reading through the Course 5 stuff while studying hard on the Exam M material. I'm going to try to continue the continuous study habit - whatever necessary for the ASA first.

[Monty Carlow]

I might've mentioned this in another thread, but it's worth repeating:

After you've got 1 or 2 exams done with, try and look for small insurance companies. The larger companies will be looking for candidates that have had experience and several exams already passed (3-5 exams). Small insurance companies, though, tend to be more accepting of less than maximal job prerequisites. This comes at the cost of less pay.

I got my first position with a small insurance company with (obviously) no experience and no exams passed (I started work the week after Course 1 - Spring 2004). The pay's not in the upper bracket, but it's comfortable. .

I was under the distinct impression that smaller insurance companies didn't hire actuaries, that a large company was needed to support them.

Right now, I've got a B.S. in math, 2 exams passed, and zero work experience in the field. I've been almost completely convinced that I'm unemployable.

[wat]

I was under the distinct impression that smaller insurance companies didn't hire actuaries, that a large company was needed to support them.

Right now, I've got a B.S. in math, 2 exams passed, and zero work experience in the field. I've been almost completely convinced that I'm unemployable.

Not necessarily. A lot of them do, though. However, I think that with no experience, it might be easier to get a start in a small company, a consulting position or even a government position. A good start might be with www.dwsimpson.com (http://www.dwsimpson.com).

[crayolaab]

Not necessarily. A lot of them do, though. However, I think that with no experience, it might be easier to get a start in a small company, a consulting position or even a government position. A good start might be with www.dwsimpson.com (http://www.dwsimpson.com).

How does one go about finding jobs with smaller insurance companies?

[wat]

How does one go about finding jobs with smaller insurance companies?

I'm not trying to sound like a smart-aleck, but try your local phone book. Are there any insurance companies there? If not, then you could also check the SOA - I've heard there's a listing of companies that have exam support programs across the nation (US). With the small insurance companies, you can always inquire from their website or their HR department whether they have an actuarial department and whether they're looking for candidates.

Be proactive in your job search - don't let things just fall into your lap. You might get lucky ... but then again, you might not.

[afriend]

hi man, are you writing soa or cas? cuz c5 is offered by cas this spring....

[wat]

hi man, are you writing soa or cas? cuz c5 is offered by cas this spring....

I'm on the life side: SOA. But, I do need to take M first, and after last sitting, I think 2 exams was more than enough for me. It's sort of a personal vow that I not take more than 1 exam again, especially when I get to the written exams (if I ever get there).

[crayolaab]

I'm not trying to sound like a smart-aleck, but try your local phone book. Are there any insurance companies there? If not, then you could also check the SOA - I've heard there's a listing of companies that have exam support programs across the nation (US). With the small insurance companies, you can always inquire from their website or their HR department whether they have an actuarial department and whether they're looking for candidates.

Be proactive in your job search - don't let things just fall into your lap. You might get lucky ... but then again, you might not.

I'm outside of America at the moment, so it's hard to search for things- I'm pretty much confined to the internet at the moment. I actually have a stepmother in the business, she worked for MetLife and has friends at ManuLife, Fidelity, Prudential and a few others - so I am hoping to make some connections through her when I am back in America. I just wasn't sure if there were other forums like this more devoted to job openings or websites listing companies :) I'll definitely look into the phone book when I get to America!

[wat]

I'm outside of America at the moment, so it's hard to search for things- I'm pretty much confined to the internet at the moment. I actually have a stepmother in the business, she worked for MetLife and has friends at ManuLife, Fidelity, Prudential and a few others - so I am hoping to make some connections through her when I am back in America. I just wasn't sure if there were other forums like this more devoted to job openings or websites listing companies :) I'll definitely look into the phone book when I get to America!

Best of luck to you. Your "connections" will definitely help.

[number1]

... thus far.

I have been out of school for two years now, and have passed the first two exams in that time. I graduated with a B.S. in Math with a 3.17 GPA. My counselors at school were next to useless, and I only discovered the actuarial profession in my senior year.

Since then, I have been dazed trying to figure out everything for myself. Apparently, as it exists right now, the industry wants some experience before they'll give you a shot, but I missed the opportunity for an internship in college, and now I am told that I am too old for one now.

So, I am left in something of a pickle and I don't know what to do. I'd want to talk to the firms directly, but everything is done through clunky websites now. If anyone has any good advice, I'd like to hear it.

If you are in the U.S., the Society of Actuaries publishes "A List of Companies with Training Programs". This could be your biggest asset. The list has company names, locations, names of companies, phone numbers, email addresses. Be your own recruiter and start contacting the people on the list. Do both Phone calls/messages and eamils...leave a summary of your background as your message. Also, try inputting your career profile at www.actuarialgrads.com. There are no magic bullets but you have to try many avenues.

[Irish Blues]

... thus far.

I have been out of school for two years now, and have passed the first two exams in that time. I graduated with a B.S. in Math with a 3.17 GPA. My counselors at school were next to useless, and I only discovered the actuarial profession in my senior year.

Since then, I have been dazed trying to figure out everything for myself. Apparently, as it exists right now, the industry wants some experience before they'll give you a shot, but I missed the opportunity for an internship in college, and now I am told that I am too old for one now.

So, I am left in something of a pickle and I don't know what to do. I'd want to talk to the firms directly, but everything is done through clunky websites now. If anyone has any good advice, I'd like to hear it.

I was in your situation...so I understand how you feel. I graduated in December 2003 with a B.A. in Math, a 3.62 GPA, and a score of 9 on Exam 1. But...I had no experience so I couldn't get hired. I could get interviewed...but that was it.

I passed Exam 2 in November and got a few more serious interviews. I finally got a job offer recently from a major insurance company and may have a 2nd offer from a consulting firm, meaning I'll have to make a serious choice: go P&C (which is what I want) and move 1200 miles away, or go Pensions and only move 225 miles away. One way will be hard on my wife and kids, the other won't. (Guess which one is which?) It took me 16 months from graduation to my first offer...but it finally came.

The best advice I can give you is to stay positive, and keep plugging away with applications. Research interview techniques and practice them. I think that's what finally did it for me - I got into an interview, felt *really* comfortable with everyone I talked to, and got a call back with an offer in 48 hours. Much of getting hired is making a connection with everyone you talk to - if you feel tenative, uneasy, or uncomfortable, it will show in the interview and you'll still be on the outside looking in.

Keep applying through the company websites, but use the ATP list posted on the SOA website - that will give you names and e-mail addresses. When they call, explain your situation (with a positive spin, of course) and express your interest in the actuarial field. Make sure they understand that you're serious about getting in. When you do get called, talk positively on everything you can...and be as sincere as possible while doing so. Like I said, if the people you talk to like you, it'll really help your chances of finally kicking the door down.

As my wife said...I got her to say "yes" - surely someone else out there will too. If I got hired, I'm sure you will too. It's not "if" you can get hired, it's "when" you get hired.

[wat]

I was in your situation...so I understand how you feel. I graduated in December 2003 with a B.A. in Math, a 3.62 GPA, and a score of 9 on Exam 1. But...I had no experience so I couldn't get hired. I could get interviewed...but that was it.

I passed Exam 2 in November and got a few more serious interviews. I finally got a job offer recently from a major insurance company and may have a 2nd offer from a consulting firm, meaning I'll have to make a serious choice: go P&C (which is what I want) and move 1200 miles away, or go Pensions and only move 225 miles away. One way will be hard on my wife and kids, the other won't. (Guess which one is which?) It took me 16 months from graduation to my first offer...but it finally came.

The best advice I can give you is to stay positive, and keep plugging away with applications. Research interview techniques and practice them. I think that's what finally did it for me - I got into an interview, felt *really* comfortable with everyone I talked to, and got a call back with an offer in 48 hours. Much of getting hired is making a connection with everyone you talk to - if you feel tenative, uneasy, or uncomfortable, it will show in the interview and you'll still be on the outside looking in.

Keep applying through the company websites, but use the ATP list posted on the SOA website - that will give you names and e-mail addresses. When they call, explain your situation (with a positive spin, of course) and express your interest in the actuarial field. Make sure they understand that you're serious about getting in. When you do get called, talk positively on everything you can...and be as sincere as possible while doing so. Like I said, if the people you talk to like you, it'll really help your chances of finally kicking the door down.

As my wife said...I got her to say "yes" - surely someone else out there will too. If I got hired, I'm sure you will too. It's not "if" you can get hired, it's "when" you get hired.

Congratulations on the job offer. Stories like yours are inspirational to those that continue to apply for entry-level actuarial positions, and anecdotal evidence for those that believe that actuarial work is not for them if they cannot immediately get a position with a company after 1 or 2 attempts. Good luck with everything, and I hope your move (if you are) goes smoothly!

[its_me]

Count me in , Monty Carlow . I have a Masters in Stats, 3 years of Java pexperience before i decide to switch careers.Now i have 2 exams & no actuarial experience whatsoever. And the last month and a half in the job market, makes me feel i stand no chance because there seems to be no openings coming up for people like me.

[wat]

Count me in , Monty Carlow . I have a Masters in Stats, 3 years of Java pexperience before i decide to switch careers.Now i have 2 exams & no actuarial experience whatsoever. And the last month and a half in the job market, makes me feel i stand no chance because there seems to be no openings coming up for people like me.

That's not necessarily the case. I offer some anecdotal evidence that some have sent out over 30-40 resumes and applications to companies and still haven't got more than a few interviews, let alone any offers. Your programming experience is definitely a plus in the profession - it shows a proficiency with computers (albeit a different proficiency). If possible, try and get Excel/Access and familiarize yourself with it (if you haven't already).

Also, your experience (or lack of) in the actuarial field need not be a complete hindrance to you entering the field. If you live in the US, there are definitely people that have gotten actuarial jobs with no intern experience and less exams. I got a job at my current company with no experience and having just taken (not passed) Course 1. My company is a small life insurance company (<10 actuarial positions), so the hiring requirements weren't as stringent as they would be in the large metros in the US (New York, Chicago, etc.).

[sundwarf]

I know that it's kinda hard now to land an actuarial job in the bigger firms in US now, even an internship. That's why I want to look for openings in smaller companies instead, but I just dunno how to start. As you know, the Society of Actuaries website has a list of employers, but they are mostly, if not all, huge companies. So can anyone tell me how to look for smaller insurance companies?

[number1]

OK, here's a little recruiting secret for many of you. Go to the Society of Actuaries website, sort on the city or the specialty you want to go into, and start contacting FSA's or FCAS's at those companies. Phone messages might even be better than emails. Give a couple second description of yourself, i.e. # of exams, graduating on date, major, gpa, computer skills, live in the area, etc. Be your own recruiter and sound professional.

Also, add make sure to add your career profile at www.actuarialgrads.com. Also, check for entry level jobs at www.actuary.com.

[Monty Carlow]

I know that it's kinda hard now to land an actuarial job in the bigger firms in US now, even an internship. That's why I want to look for openings in smaller companies instead, but I just dunno how to start. As you know, the Society of Actuaries website has a list of employers, but they are mostly, if not all, huge companies. So can anyone tell me how to look for smaller insurance companies?

I have the same problem. I poured thru the list that the SOA provides for entry-levels, but the bigger companies right now just aren't interested without a year or two of experience.

What I am going to do is google 'insurance companies' and see what I get. About a year ago, I spent a day going thru the phonebook under "actuaries" and I got a few promising leads.

[Irish Blues]

OK, here's a little recruiting secret for many of you. Go to the Society of Actuaries website, sort on the city or the specialty you want to go into, and start contacting FSA's or FCAS's at those companies. Phone messages might even be better than emails. Give a couple second description of yourself, i.e. # of exams, graduating on date, major, gpa, computer skills, live in the area, etc. Be your own recruiter and sound professional.

Also, add make sure to add your career profile at www.actuarialgrads.com. Also, check for entry level jobs at www.actuary.com.

QFA. Going this route might well be more effective than going through any web site - especially if you want to start with a smaller company.

[gabriel]

OK, here's a little recruiting secret for many of you. Go to the Society of Actuaries website, sort on the city or the specialty you want to go into, and start contacting FSA's or FCAS's at those companies. Phone messages might even be better than emails. Give a couple second description of yourself, i.e. # of exams, graduating on date, major, gpa, computer skills, live in the area, etc. Be your own recruiter and sound professional.

Also, add make sure to add your career profile at www.actuarialgrads.com. Also, check for entry level jobs at www.actuary.com.


I did the same thing and made contact with quite a few actuaries - maybe one response per 4 emails - I sent out about 70. I approached them as a person with questions rather than a job seeker. I attached a resume but used a comment like "in case you are interested in my background..." I spoke to a few people on the phone and had lunch with one man. They offered advise and passed my resume around, but I had no exams, so I only had one interview, and it was for an internship that wouldn't have paid my bills -- I'm not in school.

Several of the people told me to get in touch with them again after I pass the first exam, for which I'll sit in May. Now I have my own question: I have no actuarial experience, but I have been working in finance for about a year. My job title is associate but I'm really an analyst - I use excel extensively and access somewhat less. I work in corporate litigation and bankruptcy -- the subject matter is unrelated but maybe I can sell something about skill sets (?) -- I don't know. Do you think that I can present my current job in such a way as to get around having "no actuarial experience"??

Thanks

[gabriel]

. Go to the Society of Actuaries website, sort on the city or the specialty you want to go into


One more thing I should have mentioned: Be sure to search on the names of small towns or suburbs. I've noticed that a lot of the small insurance companies in atlanta are actually around atlanta.

Here's the link for the directory search page:

http://directory.soa.org/cgi-bin/lansaweb?procfun+mdweb3+mdx010+PRD

Good Luck!

[krzysio]

I almost can't believe these postings about not being able to find jobs. I guess your colleges did nothing for you, but I am amazed. For my students, if they graduate with at least one exam, the placement rate is 100%, and if no exams, 50%. I guess if nothing works, go back to get a Master degree at a place that is serious about actuarial science and about helping you get a job. By the way, looking for a job means applying to at least 25 places nationwide. And remember, discouragement is the tool that the devil uses when all other nasty tools failed. Don't get fooled by that silly tool.

Yours,
Krzys'

[sundwarf]

Well, for your students that may the the case, but it seems like it doesn't apply to my school... Yea perhaps it's because there's no actuarial science major in my school, so most people are not really very interested to become an actuary. So I guess the only way to make myself to become a standout is to pass at least 2 exams before I start to find full time jobs.

I feel very discouraged at times too. Sometimes I feel like I can't land any jobs and most people have better resumes than I do. But then I realized that I have take my initiative to search for jobs, or I will never become an actuary. I hope I will eventually get an offer....

[AVB]

If you don't have good resume, get a professional resume writing company to do one for you.

The resume is still truthful and about you, but they are so much better at producing resume's that get results that's it's well worth doing. I spent about £140 on a cv (resume), that's equivalent to about $220.

Alot of money, but I went from one interview every 2 or 3 months, to an interview every other fortnight (1 every 2 weeks). I got two job offers! And now work as an actuarial student.

So put your money where your heart is and make sure your resume is the best!

[wat]

If you don't have good resume, get a professional resume writing company to do one for you.

The resume is still truthful and about you, but they are so much better at producing resume's that get results that's it's well worth doing. I spent about £140 on a cv (resume), that's equivalent to about $220.

Alot of money, but I went from one interview every 2 or 3 months, to an interview every other fortnight (1 every 2 weeks). I got two job offers! And now work as an actuarial student.

So put your money where your heart is and make sure your resume is the best!

'''. I can't say that I've ever done this before. But as long as it worked for you, I would venture to say that it was well-spent.

[Monty Carlow]

I almost can't believe these postings about not being able to find jobs. I guess your colleges did nothing for you, but I am amazed.

Mine did practically nothing. I went to a school that is known for their co-op program, and I had five different co-op counselors in five years there, for $30k/year in tuition. Every one had to start anew with contacts, and only one of them contacted me to let me know there was a changeover. I hope some students are being treated better.

[Irish Blues]

I almost can't believe these postings about not being able to find jobs. I guess your colleges did nothing for you, but I am amazed. For my students, if they graduate with at least one exam, the placement rate is 100%, and if no exams, 50%.

Yours,
Krzys'

I hate to say this, but the actuary science program at Illinois State is *very* well thought out. If I had lived 100 miles closer to Bloomington I would have gone there instead of to SIU-C (where we have no actuary science program, and thus no help from Career Services to those wanting to become an actuary). Then add in the fact that the ISU program has several very well-respected teachers like yourself, and it's easy to think that other schools have done as much work as ISU has put into developing the program.

At SIU-C, the career fairs were geared towards agriculture, business, some engineering, and "general" - there was *nothing* for people in mathematics, except grad school.

[azaremba]

I almost can't believe these postings about not being able to find jobs. I guess your colleges did nothing for you, but I am amazed. For my students, if they graduate with at least one exam, the placement rate is 100%, and if no exams, 50%. I guess if nothing works, go back to get a Master degree at a place that is serious about actuarial science and about helping you get a job. By the way, looking for a job means applying to at least 25 places nationwide. And remember, discouragement is the tool that the devil uses when all other nasty tools failed. Don't get fooled by that silly tool.

Yours,
Krzys'


I agree here, I recently started an entry level position at a Consulting company and had several other offers along the way. However I was in the same boat as you, I had two exams passed, none as of graduation, and no related work experience. There are two ways to go about it: one that may find you a job like you may be doing, or another that WILL get you a job. I passed both after college and passed 2 fall of '04. So as soon as I found it out in January I went on the biggest job hunt I knew possible. It more than paid off, I had plenty of interviews, and took the offer that best suited. Try this:

-First good resume is key, I had worked in a Finance dept of a Fortune 200 company so though it was not insurance it helped. You have two exams, I gaurantee you can make your resume solid.
***-Contact Universities, go on school websites and contact their Actuarial Dept's. Try Purdue, Illinois, Iowa, UW and that is only midwest. ASK for company contacts. I received a list of 25 direct contacts to all Actuary companies in Chicago and around. That was ultimately my golden ticket into the field. They should help you.***
-Try Headhunters/ recruiters. DW, actuarialjobs,... there are plenty of people willing to help. You get a job and they get paid, win win situation.
-Use all the right tools, polite e-mails, solid CV and resumes, follow up thank you's. Use everything in the book

There is a high demand for people like you and I experienced this first hand the past 10 weeks. I don't want this to sound like you are doing the wrong thing, but instead to stay positive. Two exams is key, it is just a matter of time until you find what you are there for.