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Thread: Is it possible to get actuary position on H1

  1. #21
    Actuary.com - Level II Poster
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    Nah, buddy...

    A troll is someone who repeats themselves in a confrontational manner while trying to get a rise out of other people. The stuff you have been saying isn't constructive, or well-written advice; it is a pessimistic, and fairly racist opinion where you are taking your unfortunate (and seemingly deserving) situation and saying it applied to the entire actuarial field. That is a sweeping, and inaccurate generalization.

  2. #22
    Actuary.com - Level III Poster nostalgiajesskang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JS1 View Post
    Give it up, a troll is not someone who disagrees with your viewpoint. Banning me for having a non-majority opinion would turn what is presently a discussion forum into a cheerleader forum. It's supposed to have information for people who want to become actuaries, and censoring opinions will not do them any good.

    If I had someone tell me that ceasing the exam series is a very bad idea, and quitting your job in order to work somewhere that does have a student program is strongly recommended, I would have done that! I think that new people deserve to have this kind of information.
    Calm down and march on are all you need! :coolman:

  3. #23
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    Yes, It's possible

    Skipping past the melee, Yes, you can get a job in the US on an H1B visa. I personally am on one.

    Having graduated from a US university (undergrad), getting excellent grades and passing an actuarial exam while at college, I was just as qualified as anyone else for the position. If you take my extra-curricular activities, and the fact that I attained Two other insurance-field designations Before graduation put me well above other candidates, in my opinion (and in recruiters' opinions lol).

    For the record, I do not earn less than my peers. In fact looking at the averages on DW Simpson, I earn more that the starting average.

    Looking at a field as technical as actuarial science, I would think employers simply hire the best workers with the skill. The day when you find an ASA flipping burgers in Burger King is the day when you should start worrying about foreigners "stealing" your actuarial jobs. In the meantime, employers will hire the talent regardless of their citizenship. Seeking an actuarial position as a non-US citizen is not as easy as you seem to think. Many insurance companies do not sponsor H-1B visas. International students who want a job in the field must not be equal to their peers, but must actually be Better to set themselves apart, and be worth the headache of hiring.

    Offering H-1B's to Indians in IT is an entirely different story, and should not be brought into an actuarial conversation.

  4. #24
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    So an ASA has to be a burger-flipper in order to sound the economic alarm?

    Is it not good enough that an ASA is doing non-ASA work? '''...

    I'm not an ASA (but I have 5 exams), and while I'm not flipping burgers, I am doing a job that does not require actuarial exams.

    Clearly I wasted a lot of money and a lot of time taking actuarial exams because people like you flood the job market, destroying the prospects I once had for a fulfilling career.

    One reason I have a job is because I get to mail letters to retirees with their pension benefit statements, which is too expensive to mail from India. The day that mail from India is cheaper is the day that I get laid off.

    I am doing everything in my power to NOT give the people in India the chance to do more of my job, because that increases the probability that I will get laid off.

    I have the choice of calculating a pension benefit that isn't boilerplate myself or sending it back to India with instructions on how to calcuate such benefits. What is the probability that I will give the Indian people the knowledge it takes to destroy my job? Hint: it's neither positive nor negative.

  5. #25
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    You know what you could've done that a person from India or wherever has? Passed more exams.

  6. #26
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    Hey! Good to see all this. Out of curiosity which will eventually help in some decision taking: Are actuaries from abroad allowed to practice in the US. If yes, how often is that? And if no, then is there a procedure for an already qualified actuary to join SOA in the US?

    Hope this is not thread hacking. It's under the same topic.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by JS1
    If I had someone tell me that ceasing the exam series is a very bad idea, and quitting your job in order to work somewhere that does have a student program is strongly recommended, I would have done that! I think that new people deserve to have this kind of information.
    To be fair, you probably should have known this. If I've read correctly, you went to UT-Austin, a school with one of the better actuarial programs in the country (world?). I'm skeptical that your professors at UT didn't tell you to find a good student program...

    Further, the exams are the cornerstone of an actuarial education. Common sense should have told you not to stop writing exams. You shortchanged yourself. The world isn't out to get you.

    Quote Originally Posted by NME
    You know what you could've done that a person from India or wherever has? Passed more exams.
    Precisely.



    Slightly off topic, but it's my honest opinion, formulated through speaking with a number of different actuaries, that there are too many students in the pipeline who don't finish the exams or who take several years and several attempts to pass each exam. Essentially, there is a glut of mid-level actuaries and a scarcity of qualified FCAS/FSA. Thus, the societies have been seeking to reduce "travel time" for years now.

    I don't know from personal experience, but from what I've read and heard, most actuarial students are not all that helpful in terms of real, actuarial workflows and processes until after they have their letters. The only reason junior actuaries are involved in everyday workflows as much as they are is so that they can gain experience to be used later on. By most accounts, actuarial employers loathe students like JS1... who only get halfway through in 13 years time. They want students committed to finishing the exam process!
    Last edited by WILLEL2338; December 9th 2009 at 08:41 PM. Reason: clarity
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khadada
    Looking at a field as technical as actuarial science, I would think employers simply hire the best workers with the skill. The day when you find an ASA flipping burgers in Burger King is the day when you should start worrying about foreigners "stealing" your actuarial jobs. In the meantime, employers will hire the talent regardless of their citizenship. Seeking an actuarial position as a non-US citizen is not as easy as you seem to think. Many insurance companies do not sponsor H-1B visas. International students who want a job in the field must not be equal to their peers, but must actually be Better to set themselves apart, and be worth the headache of hiring.
    Yes! You must operate under the correct assumption that good companies are always looking for superstar talent. They don't want candidates from India at any cost if those candidates cannot solve problems.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by JS1 View Post

    ...

    I'm not an ASA (but I have 5 exams), and while I'm not flipping burgers, I am doing a job that does not require actuarial exams.

    Clearly I wasted a lot of money and a lot of time taking actuarial exams because people like you flood the job market, destroying the prospects I once had for a fulfilling career.

    ...

    Interesting. I feel I should direct you back to this thread (salaries in San Fran) that you, yourself, started a few months ago.

    From your comments in the aforementioned thread, it would appear that in practice all you care about is today's standard of living, yet all you can talk about is how the profession has been ruined for future actuaries. On one hand, you lament that you stopped taking exams (your choice, by the way) and that you work for a company that doesn't require exams (also, your choice). On the other hand, you show little initiative to take further exams and don't seem too interested in pursuing other companies (those that might support the exam process). Based on your comments in the other thread, I assume you didn't follow up with the company only because the job wouldn't have increased today's standard of living. You might be better served finding a student position at a lower salary, decreasing today's standard of living, yet giving you opportunity to pass exams.

    Ultimately, figuring our your career path should probably come after you finish the exams and you should finish the exams as fast as possible. That's advice for anyone, not you, specifically. I found that advice repeated numerous times when discussing the prospects of this career with recruiters, actuaries and in print on this Web site and others.


    Can you not see that your viewpoint is a bit cynical?! Even if one were to concede your cock-eyed arguments that actuaries in this country will be fully replaced by Indians; surely, you can still recognize the benefit of passing upper level exams right now, today. All of the "people like him" that flood the market today aren't likely to be FCAS/FSA anytime soon (possibly ever), yet you, having already passed 5 exams, have the opportunity to do this within only a few years!




    Quote Originally Posted by JS1
    One reason I have a job is because I get to mail letters to retirees with their pension benefit statements, which is too expensive to mail from India. The day that mail from India is cheaper is the day that I get laid off.
    You're saying American companies couldn't setup printing presses and mailing facilities in this country, where the material printed is actually analyzed/processed in another country? Really?

    If the company desired, then right now, today, they could have the Indian actuary process these letters and have him send the batch file to the US for local printing/mailing. The cost of a stamp from India is irrelevant. Data is stored digitally.
    Publication -- is the Auction
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  10. #30
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    waw

    Reading the posts is rather depressing I must say. I wasn't aware that it is actually difficult to find actuarial jobs in the US and that outsourcing is a threat, waw ... Europe is rather the other way around. Over here you become an actuary because of the high demand and the low supply (its again the number one profession), the good work - personal life balance, the decent salaries (not like investment banking but still rather ok), ... for this reason there are a lot of female actuaries with families. Outsourcing is not really an issue here and certainly not to India. I have heard that certain UK companies sometimes do it but this are usually tasks, which you could also automate with a good ICT system and you don't want to do these things.

    I also don't believe Indian actuaries are so cheap and I also expect the supply to be rather limited. Very likely their managers will cost more than a manager in Europe or the US, so I have got my doubts that it would be efficient and effective to do this. I have got some experience with Central Europe, where the salaries on average are one fourth of ours, this is definitely not true for actuaries and the managers have amazing salaries, leading to quite high costs for actuarial teams ... I am convinced I could do it cheaper ... The only problem is finding actuaries, which is rather challenging on the continent (currently I am four actuaries short on my 6 person budget :Ouch.

    I think the best advice I could give is concentrate on tasks higher in the value chain like risk management, capital modelling, value based management, reinsurance management, ... and be flexible in what you are doing.

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